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Thursday, 3 November 2005
This Is Going to Come up Again
During their love-in last night on MSNBC, Keith Olbermann asked Joe Wilson the following questions regarding the forged documents that led to his Nigerien vacation (visit link from preceding post):

Do you know from even dating back to your trip to Niger where those documents came from? Was that, could that have been a forgery by somebody in this country, in this government? Was it necessarily international? Do you have any conclusions or theories?"
Wilson replied with lawyerly language (emphases mine):

"At the time that I was briefed, before I was asked to take this trip, the documents were not in the hands of the U.S. government to the best of my knowledge. I was briefed that an officer, a U.S. officer, had either seen the documents or had been briefed on their existence. And my briefing was based upon the transcript or his report about the existence of those documents. And that's what precipitated the Vice President's query that the CIA follow up on this that led to my trip, but also led to two other reports being done at roughly the same time -- one by a four-star Marine Corps general for the Defense Department, and a third report being done by our ambassador on the ground in Niger. All three of us concluded that there was nothing to that particular allegation. But as to the providence [sic] of those documents, where they came from, I didn't know until I read about it in various articles by Mr. Hersh and Dana Priest of the Washington Post."
What is Wilson talking about? Is he talking about what his wife called "this crazy report" about Iraq talking to Niger about the sale of some yellowcake? I'm not too sure, but let us not forget the following excerpt from the Report from the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence:

The former ambassador also told Committee staff that he was the source of a Washington Post article (“CIA Did Not Share Doubt on Iraq Data: Bush Used Report of Uranium Bid,” June 12, 2003) which said, “among the Envoy’s conclusions was that the documents may have been forged because ‘the dates were wrong and the names were wrong.’” Committee staff asked how the former ambassador could have come to the conclusion that the “dates were wrong and the names were wrong” when he had never seen the CIA reports and had no knowledge of what names and dates were in the reports. The former ambassador said that he may have “misspoken” to the reporter when he said he concluded that the documents were “forged.” He also said he may have become confused about his own recollection after the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) reported in March 2003 that the names and dates on the documents were not correct and may have thought he had seen the names himself. The former ambassador reiterated that he had been able to collect the names of the government officials which should have been on the documents.
This is going to come up again, you know. Wilson can't keep his story straight and tools like Olbermann aren't going to press him too hard to do so, anyway.

I think there's some truth to the notion that the anti-war Left is searching for martyrs. They are doing their damnedest to make Wilson and his wife into victims crushed by the Bu$hitler Imperial War Machine, Inc. ---and it's just stupid. The Wilsons are willing partisans who were angling for this job from the start. They are propagandists who are only in it for the fame and fortune.


Posted by Toby Petzold at 10:41 PM CST | Post Comment | View Comments (7) | Permalink

Friday, 4 November 2005 - 6:36 AM CST

Name: Rider

This canard (transl., crock) is so old I think I saw it on Antiques Road Show last week. No doubt it will come up again and again until you catch up on your reading and stop citing from the SSCI Whitewash Report without reference to Wilson's corrections of their distortions and misstatements and propaganda. I know, I know. That's your story and you're sticking to it.

http://www.politicsoftruth.com/editorials/Statement.html

Your obsession with trashing Joe Wilson is really sick. You should get some professional help. If anything is certain it is that Fitzgerald has not the slightest interest in targeting the Wilsons for anything. They are the injured parties, particularly Valerie. Duh.

Nov. 4, 2005 Joe Wilson Still Not Indicted: Day Seven

Friday, 4 November 2005 - 8:20 AM CST

Name: Deep Blade
Home Page: http://deepblade.net/journal/

I concur with the previous commenter. Let's get beyond the sophomoric slurs against the Wilsons. Go on over to Talking Points Memo and then read Larry Johnson at TPM Cafe for a serious examination of pre-war intelligence fraud. Also, stop reading the Republican addendum to SSCI's July 2004 report, it's basic bullshit. Some of the meat in the real report (before page 450) is quite interesting, however. For example, look at the frauds behind "Curveball" and the "Winnebagoes of Death", or "Joe Centrifuge" and the aluminum tubes.

Friday, 4 November 2005 - 4:36 PM CST

Name: Rider

Maybe this will help.

"In early February [2003], the CIA received a translation of the Niger documents and in early March, copies of the documents, which it turned over to the International Atomic Energy Agency."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A13536-2003Jul5?language=printer

Apparently no one in the US government had seen the documents themeselves until March 2003. Until that time all that anyone knew of them was based on reports and on transcriptions of the texts.

SISMI had been reporting attempted Iraqi uranium buys in Niger since the late 1990's if not before. They reported again after 9-11. In early 2002, SISMI passed such a report to the CIA containing transcripts and summaries of the very documents that would turn up later that year. The CIA briefed Cheney on this. This is what Wilson is saying in the interview with Olbermann, that a US officer had seen transcripts.

Cheney raised questions at the CIA briefing and the CIA decided to send Wilson to check it out. He had done this before for the CIA / NSC, btw. Wilson had no direct knowledge of the documentary evidence.

In October, 2002, a full nine months after Wilson's trip, the documents themselves surfaced in Rome and were passed to the US Embassy and thence back to the State Dept. in Washington. The CIA analyzed them and quickly recognized them as forgeries.

Meanwhile, the Cheney Team "fell for it" and the intell made its way into Bush's 2003 SOTU Address.

In early 2003, the IAEA demanded to see the documentary evidence for the purported Iraqi attempted uranium buy. The CIA handed them over, and on March 7, El Baradei announced their finding that the documents were fakes. This was on the eve of the invasion of Iraq.

The source for the info above:

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/archives/week_2005_10_30.php#006896

I am not sure what you are alleging about Joe Wilson. All of his statements fit the known facts. No one in the CIA or in the U.S. government apparently had seen the actual documents until at least nine months after Wilson's trip. All that we had at the time of his trip were the transcriptions and the crazy report Valerie mentioned. The CIA briefed Joe Wilson on what was known at that point. No one in the CIA could have shown Joe Wilson the documents much prior to El Baradei's announcement, because they didn't have them until shortly before then.

Wilson obviously conflated what he learned about the documents after El Baradei announced them as fakes with what he knew earlier. From that point on, they were known as fakes and forgeries. He misspoke. Big deal. You are reading way too much into this and attempting to pose the question, "How did Joe Wilson know they were forgeries? And when did he know it?" He concluded from his trip to Niger that the SISMI report was a crock, even without seeing the documents. After March 7, he, like everyone else, knew they were.

This case is not about Joe Wilson. It's about a bunch of treasonous scuzbuckets in Dick Cheney's office.

Friday, 4 November 2005 - 8:57 PM CST

Name: TP

The majority of the members of the SSCI approved of that "addendum." Why is that not good enough? Why is that not legitimate?

Friday, 4 November 2005 - 9:06 PM CST

Name: TP

Rider (with my emphases):

No one in the CIA or in the U.S. government apparently had seen the actual documents until at least nine months after Wilson's trip. All that we had at the time of his trip were the transcriptions and the crazy report Valerie mentioned. The CIA briefed Joe Wilson on what was known at that point. No one in the CIA could have shown Joe Wilson the documents much prior to El Baradei's announcement, because they didn't have them until shortly before then.

That's a whole lot of weasel, sir. If a "US officer" had been in possession of "transcriptions" prior to Wilson's vacation, then that means that there was some preparation done somewhere along the line that we simply cannot know the truth about. And that "crazy report"? Sounds like there was plenty of stuff available. And it seems plausible that Wilson saw some of that stuff and then ---without any resistance from his wife's employer--- went and discussed all of this with reporters and then in his own very high-profile op-ed in the New York Fucking Times. There are consequences to these things ---and Wilson is not immune to them.

You are reading way too much into this and attempting to pose the question, "How did Joe Wilson know they were forgeries? And when did he know it?"

You're right about what I was trying to do. That would have been much pithier. Thanks.

Friday, 4 November 2005 - 10:54 PM CST

Name: Rider

It hardly needs saying that I only know what I read in the newspapers. Hence the qualifiers, sir. You would do well to own up to what you don't know too, of which there is evidently considerable. Again I say you need to do your homework before trying to spin a conspiracy theory.

The "crazy report" was clearly the report prepared by Italian military intelligence (SISMI) for the CIA and passed on to Cheney. "The U.S. officer" was no doubt the unknown to us CIA officer who briefed the VP about the SISMI report. You should know this much.

"Sounds like there was plenty of stuff available." No. Not unless you were privy to the inner sanctum of Italian military intelligence, where all of this "stuff" seems to have originated and about which no one has gotten a straight answer from the Italians or the White House. Get your fact straight.

No, it is decidely not plausible that Wilson saw any of this stuff. No one in the U.S. government had seen any of this stuff (copies of the actual documents) in February 2002. The documents themselves had not surfaced until nine months after Wilson's trip. In February 2002 even Cheney had seen only text transcriptions. (It was in fact well after the documents surfaced that anyone knew the forgeries were the exact documents transcribed in the report given to Cheney) There was very damned little stuff around, which is why they had to send somebody to Niger to check the external evidence. Why don't you know this?

"...went and discussed all of this with reporters and then in his own very high-profile op-ed in the New York Fucking Times. There are consequences to these things." Consequences for what, pray tell? What precisely is it you allege Joe Wilson knew that he shouldn't have known? And what precisely did he reveal in the New York Times that he shouldn't have revealed? Certainly nothing Nicholas Kristof could have published in May 2003. That was two months after the IAEA had publicly exposed the Niger documents as forgeries and fakes. Wilson's trip to Niger was not secret. It was considered discreet but not secret. ("One, I don't do clandestine," as he said in the interview below - p. 13) Please provide the evidence for your claim that Kristof or Wilson revealed something for which you think there must be "consequences." Do you imagine you have found some classified information that Wilson has leaked? What exactly was it? Put up or shut up.

Whatever Wilson saw, it wasn't the documents themselves. Whatever he knew about the SISMI report (that "crazy report") was whatever the CIA decided he needed to know and briefed him on before they sent him to Niger in February 2002. He couldn't have seen the documents before March 2003 because the CIA didn't even have them till then. If you are going to make allegations based on what was known when, then you need to have better grasp of the timeline.

Whatever Wilson has talked or written about concerning the documents has been nothing other than what any of us who actually read the newspapers knew about once the IAEA exposed the documents as fakes and forgeries in March 2003. But of course Wilson knew after his trip to Niger that the documentary basis for SISMI's "crazy report" had to be bogus even without seeing them or transcriptions of them, because he had found external evidence refuting the report. IAEA confirmed it. The first time Wilson "saw" the documents was when Andrea Bitchell put them in front of him in their interview, except that he didn't have his reading glasses on and still didn't see them!

http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/docs/wilson.interview.pdf

This case is not and never has been about Joe Wilson. It's about some treasonous scuzbuckets in Dick Cheney's office.

Sunday, 6 November 2005 - 12:01 AM CST

Name: Deep Blade
Home Page: http://deepblade.net/journal

Would it be if it were a Democrat addendum?

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