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Tuesday, 23 August 2005
The Long Knives
Have a look at this post over at Steve Soto's place. Apparently, he and some Kossack-types are about to have done with the Democratic Leadership Council and call for total peace:

With the DLC wing and their new mouthpieces Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden sounding a replay of the “we can’t be against the war; Bush will berate us!” 2004 campaign message, there is room as Atrios notes for the rest of the party to move into new and unencumbered territory on Iraq from this point forward. Bush ran and won on Iraq and terror in 2004, but there is a good and bad side to that development. The bad side for the Democrats is that they lost the election. The good side is that with the conclusion of that election Democrats are free to throw off the shackles of that “we can’t leave Iraq” albatross and start anew.
There's rumblings throughout the Left half of the blogosphere that the anti-war crowd is preparing to seize its moment and excommunicate the sell-outs, but on the basis that Soto establishes here? Hardly.

First, it may be that Clinton and Biden can actually see a variety of reasons why we should be in Iraq ---all wars ultimately being multi-causal. Maybe they, unlike the execrable John F. Kerry, are the nuanced ones. Biden is especially quick to criticize the execution of the war ---as any fair-minded supporter would in such an important matter--- but he may personally accept the necessity of our use of force in that part of the world to foment these new democratic movements.

Second, there's no obvious political advantage to advocating immediate withdrawal from Iraq ---at least none that any unambiguously anti-war Democrat may claim. That is to say, no one cares whether Turd Kennedy thinks we should cut and run; but people would pay attention if HRC or Biden thought so.

Third, it is an absolute mistake to suppose that Iraq is an irreparable mess. The Coalition and the Iraqi people have achieved a lot in these past two and a half years: deposing the Saddamites, securing countless little liberties that we here take for granted, the January elections in which eight million Iraqis braved death to participate, and now the prospect of a constitution and real democratic form of government. You want to be on the wrong side of that, Steve? You want to abandon what we have begun because we didn't find enough WMD to your liking? I think that's a very irresponsible tack to take. Our men and women didn't sacrifice themselves in such numbers just so that y'all can pretend this is 1968; they sacrificed themselves so that we can insist upon and defend democracy in the middle of a very backwards part of the world ---one that harbors oil and Sulafists and enemies of Christianity and Judaism.

I think you know what Scoop Jackson would say. He'd say that albatrosses don't wear shackles.


Posted by Toby Petzold at 9:07 PM CDT | Post Comment | View Comments (2) | Permalink

Wednesday, 24 August 2005 - 1:17 PM CDT

Name: Rob Douth
Home Page: http://robdouthreport.blogspot.com

Toby, I'm hoping you can elaborate on this part:

Second, there's no obvious political advantage to advocating immediate withdrawal from Iraq ---at least none that any unambiguously anti-war Democrat may claim. That is to say, no one cares whether Turd Kennedy thinks we should cut and run; but people would pay attention if HRC or Biden thought so.

Is the argument here that people would pay attention because HRC and Biden are "great thinkers" or "respected" members of the Senate? I doubt you could claim either are particularly respected. As for "great thinkers", I believe that Biden doesn't know what side he wants to be on, whereas HRC will just tack her sails in any direction that she thinks would win her a presidential election. If she thought that she could win by being rabidly pro-war, she's the kind of person that would hop on the next plane to Crawford and jump in Saint Cindy's sleeping bag.

Or is the argument that people would note that the Dems aren't divided? Teddy is sort of a cariacture, and I don't think he's even respected all that much in his own party - he's sort of a dead weight you use to keep all the left loonies in as well as the people who tremble at being in the presence of the (genetic) greatness of JFK. But if HRC and Biden and Lieberman were along with Teddy and Russ, THEN people would start to pay attention?

Wednesday, 24 August 2005 - 7:28 PM CDT

Name: TP

Yes, relatively speaking, Biden's or HRC's opinions on this war do count for more than Kennedy's. That's because they at least have the sense to be constructive about the nuts and bolts of the war, as well as taking a fairly hard line against the Saddamites. It's all positioning, but it's smart enough.

As for a coalition of these two and Lieberman merging with Kennedy, that's never going to happen, so that isn't the argument, either.

It would be sort of a variation on Nixon's peacemaking with Red China: he had built up the credentials as an anti-communist, so if even he thought it was a good thing, then the associated ideological authority would trump all. Thus, if HRC actually started coming out for an immediate withdrawal, it would certainly garner her lots of attention.

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