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Monday, 7 November 2005
Cringe
I will happily defer to Patterico for his near-daily demolitions of the Los Angeles Times. He's kicked enough ass and taken enough names over there to be noticed. There's that. But then he'll rattle off some stuff like this that just makes you cringe (emphasis mine):

I take a backseat to no-one in my desire to see the stain of Roe removed from the Court’s set of constitutional precedents. This is primarily a concern for the integrity of constitutional jurisprudence, rather than a simple desire to see an end to abortion on demand. While I think reasonable people can disagree as to whether there should be abortion rights under some circumstances, I don’t think that rational and informed observers can deny two facts.
Well, before we get to those two facts, let's share a few moments of lit crit, which, inevitably, involves the use of pop psychology.

First, if you think that Roe is a "stain" upon the Constitution, then you have to be lying when you say that it's the integrity of the Constitution that is your primary concern, and not the issue of abortion itself. This is further evidenced by the use of the phrase "abortion on demand," which is indisputably the language of the zealot.

Second, the idea that "reasonable people can disagree as to whether there should be abortion rights under some circumstances" is one of those insincere concessions that makes the listener's buttocks clench up a little. You just know that Patterico didn't want to have to include such a superfluity, but thought he'd so so, anyway, just to mimic the tone of dispassion.

(The fact is that, if abortion is wrong, then no agency or mitigating factor can make it less wrong. "Some" circumstances? To commit your party to overturning Roe through the appointment of amenable justices is one hell of a political risk to take if you do not believe that the right to an abortion ought to absolutely be revoked. You'd better get straight on that, sir, because it makes little sense to only go half way.)

So, Patterico continues:

First, Roe was an act of pure judicial legislation by judges who were more concerned with their policy preferences than with properly interpreting the Constitution. This conclusion is supported by the structure of the decision, which created a trimester framework out of thin air, as well as by historical accounts of how individual Justices came to their decisions [...]. The Court’s jurisprudence suffers every day that it continues to defend its decision to resolve an “intensely divisive controversy” without constitutional authority to do so.
The Constitution of the United States is a remarkable document ---a moment of genius in the life of Political Man. But it is not a purposefully omniscient instrument. It has no agenda in itself. And on that non-existent agenda is this idea that the Constitution exists to be interpreted narrowly or literally at all times.

One reason we know this is that the Constitution was ratified as a document thats framers knew was incomplete even as it was submitted. It was understood then that it would have to be amended. That's what the Bill of Rights is: an acknowledgement that the structure of the Government is one thing but that the rights of the people must admit of being amended and expanded as the life of the Republic progresses.

It is absurd to think that the authority or integrity of the Supreme Court of the United States is somehow compromised by Roe. In fact, just as with Brown and Lawrence, the Supreme Court has a societal obligation to ensure the people of the United States of their most basic rights. The right of a woman to choose whether she will be a mother is unquestionably a human right. The Supreme Court has honored that ---and John Roberts has a reason to let precedent stand.

Second, the constitutionalization of abortion law by Roe and its progeny has led to a set of abortion rights far more expansive than would otherwise exist. The horror of partial-birth abortion offends the majority of Americans, who also support reasonable restrictions on abortion that have been struck down by the courts, such as spousal notification laws of the sort upheld by Judge Alito in his Casey dissent.
"Constitutionalization," as Patterico uses it, means the trumping of states' rights. Which is a rather pejorative view to take of the Constitution for someone who professes to be concerned "primarily" with its integrity. But maybe he can also explain why it's so necessary to pass a Constitutional ban on gay marriage. Does he not trust the judgement of the several states to establish their own marital law? If the Right is going to resort to the Constitution of the United States for that purpose, then how can they deny the legitimacy of the pro-choice movement obtaining its own protections through that same instrument?

So, I fully agree with Robert Bork: Roe must be overruled. The only question is how. And with the makeup of the Court we have now, my guess is that an incrementalist approach will be required.
Well. At least Patterico isn't concealing his true opinion of court-as-legislature with this! He wants it all overturned, brick by brick.

And what do you get out of this again? The guaranteed destruction of the Republican Party? Smooth move, Ex-Lax.



Posted by Toby Petzold at 9:34 PM CST | Post Comment | View Comments (5) | Permalink
Updated: Monday, 7 November 2005 9:39 PM CST

Tuesday, 8 November 2005 - 11:04 PM CST

Name: Patterico
Home Page: http://patterico.com

"First, if you think that Roe is a "stain" upon the Constitution, then you have to be lying when you say that it's the integrity of the Constitution that is your primary concern, and not the issue of abortion itself. This is further evidenced by the use of the phrase "abortion on demand," which is indisputably the language of the zealot."

Analysis:

1) Calling me a liar: check.

2) Calling me a zealot: check.

3) Rational argumentation, facts, and logic: zilch.

"Second, the idea that "reasonable people can disagree as to whether there should be abortion rights under some circumstances" is one of those insincere concessions that makes the listener's buttocks clench up a little. You just know that Patterico didn't want to have to include such a superfluity, but thought he'd so so, anyway, just to mimic the tone of dispassion."

Unclench your cheeks and give me credit for being honest. I think reasonable people can disagree on this issue.

"But maybe he can also explain why it's so necessary to pass a Constitutional ban on gay marriage."

I can't. Because I support gay marriage. But thanks for making an assumption about my opinions.

Wednesday, 9 November 2005 - 12:05 AM CST

Name: TP

Your analysis is a non-denial denial. You don't think that calling Roe a "stain" and referring to "abortion on demand" aren't emotionally loaded terms that expose your ideological bias at the expense of your legal reasoning? Be serious. But I do look forward to seeing your rational argument against female reproductive rights.

Oh, and it doesn't really matter that I was factually ignorant of your views on gay marriage. The point is that you are incoherent on that standard. If it's okay for the anti-gay Right to resort to mere "constitutionalization" to restrict a civil/human right, after all, then what is the argument against the pro-choice Left and Middle relying on a broadly defined Constitutional right to privacy vis-a-vis the SCOTUS?

Anyway, I told you I was engaging in a little pop-psychologizing, so don't be too [shocked].

Saturday, 12 November 2005 - 12:59 AM CST

Name: Patterico
Home Page: http://patterico.com

"Your analysis is a non-denial denial. You don't think that calling Roe a "stain" and referring to "abortion on demand" aren't emotionally loaded terms that expose your ideological bias at the expense of your legal reasoning? Be serious. But I do look forward to seeing your rational argument against female reproductive rights."

I'm asking you to argue better. To declare that someone is a liar or whatever is not as compelling as making an argument. For me to declare Roe a stain on our constitutional jurisprudence is an opinion, and in my view a sound one. It doesn't make me a liar or a zealot. It makes me someone who is against making up rights that don't exist.

I am somewhat familar with your name; how well do you know my blog? I have written at length about the arrogant mindset behind the Justices who created Roe out of whole cloth. Have you read those posts? Do you know how these Justices came to their decision? Do you realize that they decided on the result first and the rationale second? Does that bother you? These are genuine questions; I don't know exactly who I'm arguing with here.

My view on gay marriage is that it is not a constitutional right. It should be decided by the people of the various states. But I would vote for it. When California placed before the voters a proposition that said California recognizes only marriages between a man and a woman, I voted against it. If California had a proposition that enacted gay marriage, I would vote for it. But I am against making up a "constitutional" right to gay marriage that doesn't exist.

As for abortion, the policy issue of whether and to what extent to permit abortion leaves me conflicted. The travesty that is Roe v. Wade does not. It should be overruled, tomorrow. But I don't really know to what extent I would vote to permit abortion rights. I believe we have gone way too far in this country. I voted for California's ill-fated Proposition 73, which would have mandated parental notification. I don't believe in partial-birth abortion. But I don't consider any ending of a life after sperm meets egg to be murder. To me, it's a tough question.

I am happy to discuss these matters with you. I ask simply that you not caricature my views, that you give me some credit, and especially that you not call me a liar. Once we show each other some respect, we may be able to find common ground. If not, we can respectfully disagree. But it's not necessary to call me a liar.

Sunday, 13 November 2005 - 11:33 AM CST

Name: TP

You know what? You're right.

You won't believe this, probably, but I had originally written that you almost had to be lying, but took it out to make my rejection of your argument even more absolute.

A few of your points:

For me to declare Roe a stain on our constitutional jurisprudence is an opinion, and in my view a sound one. It doesn't make me a liar or a zealot. It makes me someone who is against making up rights that don't exist.

Why should a non-lawyer have to explain to an actual lawyer that the Constitution is not the sole and immutable source of the law in America? I realize that the idealized principle is that all law should fall into the neat categories established through the Constitution, but that is only possible by interpretation of that document. Interpretation is not immutable. Interpretation is necessarily subjective ---and the standards of the day also change.

My larger point to you, then, is that the Constitution is a changing thing (as was intended and anticipated by the Framers) and that the right of a woman to an abortion is a tooth on the cultural wheel that conservatives cannot unratchet or go back on. It simply cannot happen without doing extreme damage to the GOP. Will you not concede that?

I am somewhat familar with your name; how well do you know my blog?

You've been on my blogroll for quite some time now.

Do you know how these Justices came to their decision?

I don't know the history of their decisions, but I will avail myself of your work on that.

Do you realize that they decided on the result first and the rationale second?

Do you realize that Supreme Court Justices are political appointees and that they are not the cloistered Solomons you imagine and that they are subject to the same political movements and sea changes that all Americans are? It was a Constitution that said that negroes and aborigines were worth 3/5 of a human being which was used to keep Dred Scott in his master's thrall and black people throughout the South from voting a century after the Civil War.

Revere the Constitution, but recognize that it is not omniscient or infallible.

Does that bother you?

No. Morality precedes the law. It is moral that women should have the right to the sovereignty over their own bodies.

My view on gay marriage is that it is not a constitutional right. It should be decided by the people of the various states. But I would vote for it.

You would vote for something that is, by your own definition, extraconstitutional?

Is heterosexual marriage provided for in the Constitution?

Monday, 14 November 2005 - 8:44 AM CST

Name: Patterico
Home Page: http://patterico.com

Ah, Toby Petzold! Somehow I hadn't put two and two together.

My time is short. Let me simply say that we have very different views of the Constitution. I recently quoted Antonin Scalia on the dangers of the living Constitution, here:

http://patterico.com/2005/11/03/3906/turning-the-floor-over-to-antonin-scalia/

"It was a Constitution that said that negroes and aborigines were worth 3/5 of a human being which was used to keep Dred Scott in his master's thrall and black people throughout the South from voting a century after the Civil War."

Do you know who argued for blacks to be 3/5 of a human? Was it the North or the South? It sounds to me like you don't really understand what happened there.

"You would vote for something that is, by your own definition, extraconstitutional?"

I would vote for many things that are not covered in the Constitution. It's democracy: the people deciding for themselves, rather than leaving it up to our masters in the black robes.

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