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Sunday, 18 December 2005
Letter Trumps Spirit
Duncan Black is trying to throw us off his trail by declaring that he is not stupid, but read what he says about the New York Times' report that President Bush authorized the National Security Agency to eavesdrop on the phone conversations of potential terrorists:

So, publishing the fact that Bush has decided he can spy on people without warrants is going to damage national security even though we already had a very public policy which allowed us to do the same by getting a warrant which didn't even have to really be gotten until 72 hours after the spying began?
Once again, I must ask: if these search warrants are so easily obtained, then what does that say about the oversight that the FISA courts provide? Isn't it more likely that the President's order to the NSA is a matter of acting in exigent circumstances to protect the American people? That isn't something that depends on retroactive authorizations ---which is a meaningless procedural burden to anyone who thinks about it for five seconds. Instead, Bush's order has been subject to dozens of reviews to guarantee that no civil liberties have been trampled on unnecessarily. What else should matter?

If it makes you feel better, Duncan, I'm sure that no court in the land would admit those eavesdropped recordings at trial without a prior search warrant. So buck up: your instinct to sympathize with and demand the rights of murderers to a fair trial is undiminished.

Bush is a lying criminal.

And a wanker.
Clearly, Duncan Black is a brave man to test the chilly waters of the Fourth Reich like this. After all, hundreds of bloggers have already been rounded up and concentrated in camps: doesn't he know he could be next?


Posted by Toby Petzold at 9:04 PM CST | Post Comment | View Comments (6) | Permalink

Sunday, 18 December 2005 - 9:47 PM CST

Name: Rider

"a meaningless procedural burden"

It's not a mere formality. If an application for a retro-active warrant is rejected, the evidence obtained in the emergency wiretap cannot be used. The FISC court is a federal court in every sense and the requests for warrants have to meet the test of legitimacy. There is a panel of seven to ten federal judges. What distinguishes the FISC court from other federal courts is that the judges have top secret security clearances and the court operates in secret. This was the compromise which was intended to balance civil liberties with the government's legitimate need to wiretap bad guys. If you think it's not a serious court, read the correspondence between Judge Kollar-Kotelly and Senators Leahy and Specter in 2002 as they attempted to work out some procedural issues relating to Congressional oversight of the FISC court.

http://www.cnss.org/fisa%20short.htm

"subject to dozens of reviews"

There were no reviews outside the Executive branch. There was no oversight by the Judiciary nor by Congress. That is the problem, separation of powers, something which goes to the essence of our democracy.

In fact, we are now learning that individual NSA agents were deciding for themselves who they should wiretap without even the President's review for many months. The President did not authorize the NSA to spy on Americans until the end of the War in Afghanistan.






Monday, 19 December 2005 - 7:46 AM CST

Name: Rider

After all, hundreds of bloggers have already been rounded up and concentrated in camps: doesn't he know he could be next?

Why are you making fun of the freedoms our soldiers are defending? You don't think the iron fist could come down on your head? That mocking, cavalier attitude toward civil liberties is exactly what has a lot of patriotic Americans concerned.

Agents' visit chills UMass Dartmouth senior
By AARON NICODEMUS, Standard-Times staff writer

NEW BEDFORD -- A senior at UMass Dartmouth was visited by federal agents two months ago, after he requested a copy of Mao Tse-Tung's tome on Communism called "The Little Red Book."
Two history professors at UMass Dartmouth, Brian Glyn Williams and Robert Pontbriand, said the student told them he requested the book through the UMass Dartmouth library's interlibrary loan program.
The student, who was completing a research paper on Communism for Professor Pontbriand's class on fascism and totalitarianism, filled out a form for the request, leaving his name, address, phone number and Social Security number. He was later visited at his parents' home in New Bedford by two agents of the Department of Homeland Security, the professors said...(more:
http://www.southcoasttoday.com/daily/12-05/12-17-05/a09lo650.htm)

BTW, they didn't let him have the book! (Shows that they believe the books themselves are dangerous; not just the people who might want to read them)

Monday, 19 December 2005 - 7:21 PM CST

Name: TP

Rider:

If an application for a retro-active warrant is rejected, the evidence obtained in the emergency wiretap cannot be used.

Maybe it's because, in a war, the President isn't looking to apply the criminal code to enemy combatants.

There were no reviews outside the Executive branch. There was no oversight by the Judiciary nor by Congress. That is the problem, separation of powers, something which goes to the essence of our democracy.

But the appropriate chairs and ranking minority members did know about this stuff.

Monday, 19 December 2005 - 7:29 PM CST

Name: TP

This student tells his crypto-commie professors that he was visited by the G for requesting a copy of Mao's Little Red Book and they tell the newspaper about it, but the student himself won't come forth to speak?

I don't know why, but reading that report gave me the creeps. As total bullshit often does when I consider the mental illness that produced it.

Monday, 19 December 2005 - 9:51 PM CST

Name: Rider

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/docs/rock-cheney1.html

Sen. Rockefeller's sealed, handwritten letter shows the nature of the "consulting" Cheney did with leaders of Congress. He created an instant and involuntary omerta. He told them what Bush was doing and simultaneously cut out their tongues.

Monday, 19 December 2005 - 9:59 PM CST

Name: Rider

It gave me the creeps too. This country is in the grip of a mental illness when the Gestapo can knock on a college kid's door and grill him and his parents because he tried to borrow a book from a college library. Isn't that what college kids are supposed to do?

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